Post by ADMIN on Jun 21, 2017 14:24:14 GMT -6
This thread was transferred from the old forum
Posted by: newbold1 On: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:21 pm
Post subject: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Over the past couple weeks I have made a few purchases in order to work on making my travel trailer a bit more four season capable than it was designed to be.
I bought three holding tank heat pads from Camping World each of which is wired for both AC and DC power. I also went to Lowe's and bought enough R19 vapor barrier insulation to cover the entire underbelly of my trailer.
My trailer has an enclosed underbelly. I plan to temporarily remove all of that covering. Then, mount the heat pads to the fresh, grey, and black tanks. I have some pipe insulation that I will wrap any exposed pipes with as well while I have everything accessible. Then, I am going to extend my 15amp power that currently supplies the mini-fridge in the storage bay to a switch that I am adding to that area which will then lead to a four gang all weather outlet that I am going to install underneath the RV near the holding tanks. This will allow me to plug in all three heat pads and still be able to turn them on/off from inside the storage bay. Next I will extend the DC lines from the heat pads to the battery compartment area. I am going to add 15 amp fuses to each line, an on/off switch, and then connect to the batteries. Once that is done I am going to fill the entire bottom of the trailer with the R
19 insulation batts. Finally, I will reinstall the underbelly covering which will basically hide everything that I have done.
My hope is that this will provide excellent additional insulation to the floor of the trailer and allow the heat pads to do an even better job than they would do if just installed without added insulation. The product material suggests adding insulation but indicates it is not required.
I already have a heated 25' fresh water hose and I think with these upgrades my RV should be able to handle some pretty cold weather conditions without freezing up the pipes / tanks.
I think I am going to need the better part of an entire day to get this done. I am tied up this weekend but perhaps next weekend I might be able to get it done. I am going to try to remember to take pictures of the various stages of the job and will post my follow-up here with images to illustrate.
Wish me luck! I am hoping I won't run into any surprises.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:28 pm
My plan here is to be able to switch on the heat pads using AC or switch on DC or even switch on both. But, also, be able to switch them entirely off too.
Incidentally, the only pads I could find that had both AC and DC power were rated for 20 gallon tanks. My tanks are about 30 gallons and the fresh water is even larger. However, I figure that I don't intend for the tanks to be full and also I suspect the added insulation will help to allow the heat pads to work okay with the larger tanks. At the very least, I figure it cannot hurt. Right now I have no heat pads and only the insulation that came standard. I would think that anything I add down there will have to help.
I've been in 20 degree weather without much trouble. I am hoping that these modifications will allow me to manage 2-3 days with temperatures in the 10 to 20 degree range. And, maybe the floor won't be so cold to walk on either... a bonus.
Posted by: Sledgehammer On: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:30 am
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Interested in the results, newbold.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:24 pm
This might be something I do while I am in Florida in January. The thought of spending an entire day in the cold under the RV isn't very motivating. In Florida, it will probably just be cool vs. cold. Also, my dad will probably like having a project we can work on together. We're both always looking for something to work on.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:12 am
Well... the job is done. The heat pads are installed, AC wiring installed for them, DC wiring installed (connect to switched battery power will come later), insulation put in, and finally the bottom resealed.
It took two full days from dawn to dark. It was a very labor intensive job. The problem was that first we had to deal with all the other stuff under there that was in the way of the job we were trying to accomplish. There is so much jammed under there. Also, once the underbelly is cut into it is near impossible to "repair" it so what I did was to get some heavy plastic panels to cover over any cut areas much like a patch. I didn't like the way the underbelly was sagging though due to the additional weight of the insulation. I wasn't sure how to solve this problem. What I ended up doing is I bought 7 eight foot long pressure treated deck boards and cut them to the length between the I-beams of the frame. I used the lip of the I-beams to hold these boards up and spaced them every 5 feet or so under the trailer. This created a brand new support across the bottom that wasn't there before. I know this w
ill add some weight but I really like the strength that this added under the trailer. It is rock solid now... better than it was originally.
I intended to take pictures of the job but found that working under the trailer it was just too dark to get clear shots. Not to mention it would have added a lot of extra time since working under there was already difficult with trying to drag drills and tools around while crawling or laying on your back. Anyone interested can take a look at what was done in person when we are at one of the scheduled or unscheduled campouts. It isn't the prettiest job underneath the RV but it is functional and when standing next to the RV the underbelly looks pretty good. You really only see the "patchwork" under there if you get on your hands and knees and look up. The outlets and switches look professionally done and since those are more visible I am glad it came out good. Another added benefit is now we have additional outlets on the exterior of the trailer rather than just to one near the door. We now have one
at the front and four on the opposite side (if unplugging the heat pads / tape).
I will be very interested to see if the heat pads / tape make any difference in really cold weather. Also, wondering if the floors might be a little less cold with the added R19 insulation.
Posted by: Steve On: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:35 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Well if you can make it by tomarrow night you will have single degree temps to try it out. Glad to hear it went well and am looking forward to seeing it soon.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:38 pm
I am excited to say that while this job was fairly difficult and time consuming I think it is going to pay off.
You all know how cold it has been in mid-TN the last week or so. Many nights into the 20s and barely getting over freezing as the high temperature. Well, I have had the RV plugged into 30amp service and I kept the tank warmers and heat tape on the exposed pipes turned on for the past few days. Then, to see how it was working out I tried cracking open the grey tank release to see if the water was frozen or what. Water came out, no ice, and it was warm to the point that it steamed as it hit the cold outside air.
Inside the trailer, I had a single space heater running. The inside of the trailer was right at about 60 degrees from that one little heater. The floor was not cold. It was cool but that's better than it used to be.
Another thing I noticed is that the bedroom felt less cold and drafty. I didn't expect that because the insulation in the underbelly isn't going to do much for the bedroom being over the hollow and non climate controlled storage bay. However, perhaps that insulation is doing something to keep cold air from getting into the front cap wall. Usually you could feel cold air like a draft getting inside in that area but now nothing.
I'm really happy with the result thus far. I wonder if my trailer would be good now in temperatures in the 0-10 degree range. Apparently, 20-25 degrees is not going to be a problem at all now. I rarely camp in anything below 20 degrees so I think I am going to be in excellent shape without having to worry ever again about freezing water lines / plumbing.
I can't wait for some of you to get to see this when I am at one of the scheduled campouts.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:47 pm
Here are some pictures of the finished work. Of course, a lot is hidden in the underbelly. The outlet is one of two that power the heat tape and heat pads on AC. The lighted switch is AC on and off. The other switch is for DC power to the heat pads. You can see one of two bus bars I added to handle the extra wires for two batteries in paralell and the DC power to the heat pads. The four fuse holder can be used for other items but for now the single 30 amp fuse is from the positive terminal before the DC switch. Since everything is wired in 12 gauge I might should reduce the fuse to 20 amp to coincide with the wire size. 20 amps is sufficient for the heat pads and they are wired in paralell.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:50 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:50 pm
Additional pictures
Posted by: newbold1 On: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:54 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:54 pm
Additional pictures. In this one you can see the DC cut off switch that I mounted to the battery box. This cuts the positive line to the entire RV. That way, off shore power, I can prevent the batteries from being completely drained and damaged. Things like clocks and such keep drawing power but not when I flip the cut off switch.
I don't know why all RVs don't come with a DC master disconnect.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:21 pm
Post subject: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Over the past couple weeks I have made a few purchases in order to work on making my travel trailer a bit more four season capable than it was designed to be.
I bought three holding tank heat pads from Camping World each of which is wired for both AC and DC power. I also went to Lowe's and bought enough R19 vapor barrier insulation to cover the entire underbelly of my trailer.
My trailer has an enclosed underbelly. I plan to temporarily remove all of that covering. Then, mount the heat pads to the fresh, grey, and black tanks. I have some pipe insulation that I will wrap any exposed pipes with as well while I have everything accessible. Then, I am going to extend my 15amp power that currently supplies the mini-fridge in the storage bay to a switch that I am adding to that area which will then lead to a four gang all weather outlet that I am going to install underneath the RV near the holding tanks. This will allow me to plug in all three heat pads and still be able to turn them on/off from inside the storage bay. Next I will extend the DC lines from the heat pads to the battery compartment area. I am going to add 15 amp fuses to each line, an on/off switch, and then connect to the batteries. Once that is done I am going to fill the entire bottom of the trailer with the R
19 insulation batts. Finally, I will reinstall the underbelly covering which will basically hide everything that I have done.
My hope is that this will provide excellent additional insulation to the floor of the trailer and allow the heat pads to do an even better job than they would do if just installed without added insulation. The product material suggests adding insulation but indicates it is not required.
I already have a heated 25' fresh water hose and I think with these upgrades my RV should be able to handle some pretty cold weather conditions without freezing up the pipes / tanks.
I think I am going to need the better part of an entire day to get this done. I am tied up this weekend but perhaps next weekend I might be able to get it done. I am going to try to remember to take pictures of the various stages of the job and will post my follow-up here with images to illustrate.
Wish me luck! I am hoping I won't run into any surprises.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:28 pm
My plan here is to be able to switch on the heat pads using AC or switch on DC or even switch on both. But, also, be able to switch them entirely off too.
Incidentally, the only pads I could find that had both AC and DC power were rated for 20 gallon tanks. My tanks are about 30 gallons and the fresh water is even larger. However, I figure that I don't intend for the tanks to be full and also I suspect the added insulation will help to allow the heat pads to work okay with the larger tanks. At the very least, I figure it cannot hurt. Right now I have no heat pads and only the insulation that came standard. I would think that anything I add down there will have to help.
I've been in 20 degree weather without much trouble. I am hoping that these modifications will allow me to manage 2-3 days with temperatures in the 10 to 20 degree range. And, maybe the floor won't be so cold to walk on either... a bonus.
Posted by: Sledgehammer On: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:30 am
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Interested in the results, newbold.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:24 pm
This might be something I do while I am in Florida in January. The thought of spending an entire day in the cold under the RV isn't very motivating. In Florida, it will probably just be cool vs. cold. Also, my dad will probably like having a project we can work on together. We're both always looking for something to work on.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:12 am
Well... the job is done. The heat pads are installed, AC wiring installed for them, DC wiring installed (connect to switched battery power will come later), insulation put in, and finally the bottom resealed.
It took two full days from dawn to dark. It was a very labor intensive job. The problem was that first we had to deal with all the other stuff under there that was in the way of the job we were trying to accomplish. There is so much jammed under there. Also, once the underbelly is cut into it is near impossible to "repair" it so what I did was to get some heavy plastic panels to cover over any cut areas much like a patch. I didn't like the way the underbelly was sagging though due to the additional weight of the insulation. I wasn't sure how to solve this problem. What I ended up doing is I bought 7 eight foot long pressure treated deck boards and cut them to the length between the I-beams of the frame. I used the lip of the I-beams to hold these boards up and spaced them every 5 feet or so under the trailer. This created a brand new support across the bottom that wasn't there before. I know this w
ill add some weight but I really like the strength that this added under the trailer. It is rock solid now... better than it was originally.
I intended to take pictures of the job but found that working under the trailer it was just too dark to get clear shots. Not to mention it would have added a lot of extra time since working under there was already difficult with trying to drag drills and tools around while crawling or laying on your back. Anyone interested can take a look at what was done in person when we are at one of the scheduled or unscheduled campouts. It isn't the prettiest job underneath the RV but it is functional and when standing next to the RV the underbelly looks pretty good. You really only see the "patchwork" under there if you get on your hands and knees and look up. The outlets and switches look professionally done and since those are more visible I am glad it came out good. Another added benefit is now we have additional outlets on the exterior of the trailer rather than just to one near the door. We now have one
at the front and four on the opposite side (if unplugging the heat pads / tape).
I will be very interested to see if the heat pads / tape make any difference in really cold weather. Also, wondering if the floors might be a little less cold with the added R19 insulation.
Posted by: Steve On: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:35 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Well if you can make it by tomarrow night you will have single degree temps to try it out. Glad to hear it went well and am looking forward to seeing it soon.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:38 pm
I am excited to say that while this job was fairly difficult and time consuming I think it is going to pay off.
You all know how cold it has been in mid-TN the last week or so. Many nights into the 20s and barely getting over freezing as the high temperature. Well, I have had the RV plugged into 30amp service and I kept the tank warmers and heat tape on the exposed pipes turned on for the past few days. Then, to see how it was working out I tried cracking open the grey tank release to see if the water was frozen or what. Water came out, no ice, and it was warm to the point that it steamed as it hit the cold outside air.
Inside the trailer, I had a single space heater running. The inside of the trailer was right at about 60 degrees from that one little heater. The floor was not cold. It was cool but that's better than it used to be.
Another thing I noticed is that the bedroom felt less cold and drafty. I didn't expect that because the insulation in the underbelly isn't going to do much for the bedroom being over the hollow and non climate controlled storage bay. However, perhaps that insulation is doing something to keep cold air from getting into the front cap wall. Usually you could feel cold air like a draft getting inside in that area but now nothing.
I'm really happy with the result thus far. I wonder if my trailer would be good now in temperatures in the 0-10 degree range. Apparently, 20-25 degrees is not going to be a problem at all now. I rarely camp in anything below 20 degrees so I think I am going to be in excellent shape without having to worry ever again about freezing water lines / plumbing.
I can't wait for some of you to get to see this when I am at one of the scheduled campouts.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:47 pm
Here are some pictures of the finished work. Of course, a lot is hidden in the underbelly. The outlet is one of two that power the heat tape and heat pads on AC. The lighted switch is AC on and off. The other switch is for DC power to the heat pads. You can see one of two bus bars I added to handle the extra wires for two batteries in paralell and the DC power to the heat pads. The four fuse holder can be used for other items but for now the single 30 amp fuse is from the positive terminal before the DC switch. Since everything is wired in 12 gauge I might should reduce the fuse to 20 amp to coincide with the wire size. 20 amps is sufficient for the heat pads and they are wired in paralell.
Posted by: newbold1 On: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:50 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:50 pm
Additional pictures
Posted by: newbold1 On: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:54 pm
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for Underbelly
Post subject: Re: R19 Insulation and Heat Pads for UnderbellyPostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:54 pm
Additional pictures. In this one you can see the DC cut off switch that I mounted to the battery box. This cuts the positive line to the entire RV. That way, off shore power, I can prevent the batteries from being completely drained and damaged. Things like clocks and such keep drawing power but not when I flip the cut off switch.
I don't know why all RVs don't come with a DC master disconnect.